tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4834234576639473297.post5264081965912268227..comments2024-02-15T10:49:30.829-08:00Comments on mil gracias: A monk speaks out on Friends and the sacramentsNancy Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12660294694426043259noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4834234576639473297.post-64294372513216141492010-06-09T11:42:55.412-07:002010-06-09T11:42:55.412-07:00Nancy Thomas asked if I could comment more on my c...Nancy Thomas asked if I could comment more on my claim that "sacramentalism" imposes a high church frame of reference on interpretations of Quakerism and Quaker silence.<br /><br />Over the years I have attended Old Order (German Baptist) Brethren and conservative Mennonite churches for lengthy periods. I have never heard the term "sacrament" used in these groups to describe the "ordinances". It struck me that "sacrament" is a concept from the "liturgical" churches, not those of the Radical Reformation. Is high church liturgicalism the appropriate framework for interpreting the Quaker faith?<br /><br />Furthermore, Friends often claim that silence has a sacramental quality, and this justifies laying aside baptism, communion, etc. Does this sacramental view of silence also justify replacing the clear commands of Christ to His followers? (For example, "do this in remembrance of Me.")<br /><br />I recently came across Vernard Eller's book *In Place of Sacraments* (Eerdmans, 1972). Thus far I have only skimmed this book, but it raises similar questions about the emphasis on "sacrament".Bill Rushbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4834234576639473297.post-82950019295333783252010-06-09T05:48:43.878-07:002010-06-09T05:48:43.878-07:00I think Friends need to be mindful of "Do thi...I think Friends need to be mindful of "Do this in Remembrance of Me." I was brought up with silence before every meal rather than "grace" because we were each remembering the presence of Christ with us as we "broke bread" together. In conversation with a Jesuit friend, he commented that in the older(?) tradition of the RC mass a bell was rung at the offering of the host followed by a silence to welcome the presence of Christ. He was struck by the congruence with Friends silence before a meal to recognize the presence of Christ.Tom Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12194918323559385371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4834234576639473297.post-39028033486890446962010-06-08T07:49:52.448-07:002010-06-08T07:49:52.448-07:00Mary, your reflections always push me further. Act...Mary, your reflections always push me further. Actually, I think one of the weaknesses of Friends practice (while agreeing with the substance of Friends beliefs on the sacraments) is that we have no regular form by which to thankfully focus on the sacrificial death of Christ, and therefore, we don't do it. <br /><br />NancyNancy Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10499875245081028619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4834234576639473297.post-5099338479251790162010-06-08T07:28:08.071-07:002010-06-08T07:28:08.071-07:00Why would you be pleased to receive affirmation co...Why would you be pleased to receive affirmation concerning dispensing with a channel of grace? I'd want to avail myself of every opportunity to receive the presence of Christ. Also, is it possible that dispensing with the repeated reminder of Christ's body and blood (communion) has led to removing Christ from the center within so many denominations (including some Friends)? Love, MaryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4834234576639473297.post-83579715194572872552010-06-07T08:51:20.277-07:002010-06-07T08:51:20.277-07:00Thanks for your observation, Bill. Yes, I am using...Thanks for your observation, Bill. Yes, I am using the word "sacrament" in its traditional sense, following the term the Monk uses in his essay. I realize this is not a biblical term (as in so much of our theological language). Your observation intrigues me and I admit to not understanding completely. Could you say a little more?<br />NancyNancy Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10499875245081028619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4834234576639473297.post-74441902318848098862010-06-07T07:07:23.683-07:002010-06-07T07:07:23.683-07:00I am puzzled by Friends' tendency to cast disc...I am puzzled by Friends' tendency to cast discussions of baptism and communion in the interpretive framework of "sacrament". I believe that this term is extra-Biblical, and that it is a high church concept imposed upon dialogue concerning baptism, communion and other ordinances. The sacramental framework then becomes the basis for discussion, rather than the Biblical framework.Bill Rushbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4834234576639473297.post-64437260419124413482010-06-06T14:58:55.368-07:002010-06-06T14:58:55.368-07:00I found you! And here's Mike's blogspot: e...I found you! And here's Mike's blogspot: e-mcgideaspace.blogspot.comJanellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01979837026119456400noreply@blogger.com